thảo luận Practicing English with vOzers

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Man, back when I was still in primary school, English was such a big deal but it just seems ubiquitous now. I took the IELTS test 4 years ago and got 7.5 overall, which at the time was apparently a fairly decent score. I didn't even care all that much about it, only took it cuz I heard having an IELTS certificate would give me bonus points for university admission. But it seemed nowhere near as popular back then as it is today. Also because I live in the suburb and barely had any chances to practice the more active skills such as speaking and writing, my results were hilariously lopsided. The fact that I don't really have a way with words even in my native tongue certainly didn't help. Even as I started attending university, opportunities to hone my skills are few and far between and so I'm kinda jittery right now when I think about the prospect of applying for a job next year. English used to be my competitive edge but currently 7.0 is just commonplace whereas I feel like I've already hit a brick wall and can't advance my prowess any further.
you have great English, no need to worry about it
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Younger generation sure have better English skill, but they're still inexperienced on what to do
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Not sure what your job is, but I'd recommend focus on your expertise. For me, English is just a tool to read technical books, and I don't plan on using it as native speakers
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I usually chat on Discord with friends over the world who are younger than me, so I guess my English is more or less affected by them
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Furthermore, I would like to add that English is not an easy language. Those who perceive it as such are usually either beginners who have only grasped the fundamentals or individuals who lack a comprehensive understanding of the language. I sincerely hope that you do not underestimate the intricacies of English in such a nonchalant manner.
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naaaaah, the basic structure of English "Subject + Verb + Object + Location (Means) " is much easier than Japanese basic "Subject + Location (Means) + Object + Verb"
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I would say use any tone you want, since there's another thread in this box dedicated for IELTS writing already. This thread feels more like a chatting place (or at least, it feels so to me).
i'm also pretty bad at academic writing skills, but i'm not upset about that because no one has rejected my paper for bad writing
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Not sure what your job is, but I'd recommend focus on your expertise. For me, English is just a tool to read technical books, and I don't plan on using it as native speakers
zFNuZTA.png

I usually chat on Discord with friends over the world who are younger than me, so I guess my English is more or less affected by them
jbJjmTi.png
Thanks. I'm not different from you in that respect, though. While I'm pretty bad at writing and speaking and often find myself struggling to conjure the right words from the subconscious depth of my mind, reading technical documents is much less a problem for me than my peers. That said, I don't partake in conversations both online and offline very often so my speech suffers from stuttering and sudden halts quite a lot.
 
Furthermore, I would like to add that English is not an easy language. Those who perceive it as such are usually either beginners who have only grasped the fundamentals or individuals who lack a comprehensive understanding of the language. I sincerely hope that you do not underestimate the intricacies of English in such a nonchalant manner.
JDqv1iO.png
On this I totally agree. As a matter of fact, I'm currently self-studying grammar again, albeit in a more systematic way this time. The book I'm reading is CGEL by Quirk, which is fairly old but still quite well-written nonetheless. And it has a whopping length of 1778 pages, which is a tad too long. But because it's so detailed, I have nothing too complain about. Even though it's every bit as comprehensive as the title suggests, I still have to look up the Internet for more information from time to time, which speaks volumes about how rich and intricate the language can be.
 
Sửa lần cuối:
Thanks. I'm not different from you in that respect, though. While I'm pretty bad at writing and speaking and often find myself struggling to conjure the right words from the subconscious depth of my mind, reading technical documents is much less a problem for me than my peers. That said, I don't partake in conversations both online and offline very often so my speech suffers from stuttering and sudden halts quite a lot.
I used to frequent on Reddit, now Discord to chat
For sure i can't write English well like you (like "conjure", first time seeing it today)
 
Biology related here but i can't say much for anonymity
I hated writing when I was a student not much now since I'm already used to it
Based on your post I think you're in Japan. Are you going to settle down there? Or continue your journey in another country?

By the way; Korean's grammar is stoopiz too. Subject Object Verb........
 
Sửa lần cuối:
Based on your post I think you're in Japan. Are you going to settle down there? Or continue your journey in another country?

By the way; Korean's grammar is stoopiz too. Subject Object Verb........
Already back to VN to take care of my family sigh
Well, currently looking for a university to take me in since industry in VN has no interest for post graduate degree
Anw, does Korean explicitly state who is speaking, like
"Today is hot" said John
In Japanese, it's just 暑いなあ without stating who is saying zzzzz
 
If you all wouldn't mind, could you please give me some advice on how to enhance my abilities ? Because your masterful display of skills (in casual dialogues no less) left me utterly humbled and awestruck. I am, by my own admission, pretty middle-of-the-road or even amateurish when it comes to articulating whatever thoughts I have on my mind, especially when speaking as I have no time to double-check the grammar or content. By the looks of recent trends of English education in our country, it appears that the youth are growing more and more proficient with E and I'm afraid that without any practicing environment or guidance and with the hindrance from my own reserved nature, getting left in the dust is merely a matter of time. Some even go so far as to say that an IELTS score of 7.0 or 8.0 is just average now and in order to have any advantages over innumerable other students who are also applying for jobs, a score of 8.5 or higher is required. It's possible for me to read books of knowledge highly specific to my own major without much trouble but I keep fumbling whenever I try to speak out my mind and it takes quite a lot of time to come up with a decent piece of writing. I'd appreciate it if anyone could share their experience and wisdom.
Depend on your aim and what's your plan on using your IELTS certificate.

Using it as your main advantage? Your best potential job is "teaching E" for others. As long as you're willing to grind, you will rack up money pretty fast.

Using it as a stepping stone for your main jobs in other field? Use it as a TOOL for communication with every people around the world, for reading textbook, legal cases, technical documents, and tutorials to learn new skills.
 
Already back to VN to take care of my family sigh
Well, currently looking for a university to take me in since industry in VN has no interest for post graduate degree
How about trying in sale for Big Pharma or Thermo/Sigma/Illumina? We already knew that both academic/industry in Vietnam sucks...
Anw, does Korean explicitly state who is speaking, like
"Today is hot" said John
In Japanese, it's just 暑いなあ without stating who is saying zzzzz
I gave up learning Korean after 4 months. But there are rules for passive verb in Korea, so it is possible to determine the subject of the example sentence.

It will be translated to "오늘은 덥다" 존이 말했다.

Bold = John and Italic = said.
 
How about trying in sale for Big Pharma or Thermo/Sigma/Illumina? We already knew that both academic/industry in Vietnam sucks...

I gave up learning Korean after 4 months. But there are rules for passive verb in Korea, so it is possible to determine the subject of the example sentence.

It will be translated to "오늘은 덥다" 존이 말했다.

Bold = John and Italic = said.
Ngl, I'm not good being salesman, so I'll find my way into either chemical plants or any uni
As for Japanese and Korean, Japanese usually hides the subjects and lets the reader guess who is talking by looking at the bunch of particles and inflection
Consider this situation
John, Susan, and Lucy go out in a hot day.
English: Today is hot, says John
Japanese: 暑いなあ
なあ is masculine so the reader understands John is saying without explicitly stating John as the subject
 
Depend on your aim and what's your plan on using your IELTS certificate.

Using it as your main advantage? Your best potential job is "teaching E" for others. As long as you're willing to grind, you will rack up money pretty fast.

Using it as a stepping stone for your main jobs in other field? Use it as a TOOL for communication with every people around the world, for reading textbook, legal cases, technical documents, and tutorials to learn new skills.
I'm in a quandary regarding what to do with my E skills because while it's true that it would only serve as a tool to access information related to my main field, my competencies are less than desireable because I slacked off in the first few semesters waiting for a chance to drop out and reapply elsewhere but none ever showed up so I had to double down on my choice and to be honest, I'm not very confident about getting a dream job. And while there is a shortage of teachers in general at the moment, E teachers seem to be overabundant with the explosive rise in popularity of E certificates like IELTS and whatnot in the few recent years so in order to truly make a difference, one will have to be outstanding, which I am not. Guess I just gotta go with the flow then (sigh). Thanks for responding, though.
 
I used to frequent on Reddit, now Discord to chat
For sure i can't write English well like you (like "conjure", first time seeing it today)
Just an attempt to push myself towards actually using a myriad of the words that I can recognize when I see them but still fail to recall at the right the moment so please excuse my gratuitous usage, heheh. Also, I think 'conjure' is a shade flowery but not overly so.
I hated writing when I was a student not much now since I'm already used to it
I'm still just a student so I really dislike writing (and speaking) as well, which is why I also usually browse reddit, TVtropes and binge-watch YouTube videos without commenting anything. Obviously, this only exacerbates the problem that many students (including myself) face that is having an immense vocabulary at your disposal without being capable of wielding it effectively.
 
So far, I've only been able to search for information from the Internet and books to aid my study in a pretty passive manner as my curriculum hardly requires any writing or speaking skills aside from the compulsory E subjects which I was exempt from thanks to my IELTS certificate (frankly, the course appeared to be pretty basic so I doubt I would have accomplised anything by attending it). Also, while I was more well-educated on E than the average schoolgoer, my knowledge of grammar is pretty unsystematic and messy. I understand that communication is not something you can practice on your own so it's not entirely my fault that my improvement came to a halt (heck, I had to take the IELTS test with practically no preparation or guidance at all).

Majoring in pharmacy is a good choice. Your medical profession plus your strong English skills will land you a good job easily.

Unless the courses are taught in English, it is pretty normal for students to have to deliberately increase their exposure to this language if they wish to enhance their competitiveness in the job market. Being upset or disappointed about the lack of chances to practice English in college doesn't help change the situation. Instead, keep focusing on your current efforts; I believe you are doing great. To improve your IELTS scores in writing and speaking, just follow the format and practice more. What is preventing you from doing that? If it's because of missing an English interaction environment, create one.

Group people with similar goals and practice together, or join a similar team, online or in-person, locally or globally. It's also totally fine to practice alone, for communication purposes, by talking to yourself, recording your voice, answering questions in English. Read, write, and listen more in English. Immerse yourself in English as much as possible, live and breathe it. I know none of what I mentioned here is new, you have probably heard this thousands of times, but how seriously have you taken it? Practice is the only way to nail English in a non-native English speaking country. But don't forget to review and reflect; it's key for spotting where you can improve and avoiding past mistakes.

There's no shortcut to mastering any subject unless you are a natural-born talent. Of course, pro instructions and courses can speed things up, but you can get there eventually with your strong English foundation. All you need is determination and resilience but don't burn the candle at both ends. Slow down and relax. Your body and soul will greatly appreciate that. Time's on your side, and you're loaded with potential!
 
I'm in a quandary regarding what to do with my E skills because while it's true that it would only serve as a tool to access information related to my main field, my competencies are less than desireable because I slacked off in the first few semesters waiting for a chance to drop out and reapply elsewhere but none ever showed up so I had to double down on my choice and to be honest, I'm not very confident about getting a dream job. And while there is a shortage of teachers in general at the moment, E teachers seem to be overabundant with the explosive rise in popularity of E certificates like IELTS and whatnot in the few recent years so in order to truly make a difference, one will have to be outstanding, which I am not. Guess I just gotta go with the flow then (sigh). Thanks for responding, though.
I think this's going to be more of a chance, yeah? Demand's going up so there's less barrier to entry, people are more willing to accept more, newer options, as long as their needs are met. Just gotta find that niche for yourself and go from there.
Plus, if English teaching depends entirely on say, being amongst the few IELTS 9.0 achievers, there wouldn't be hundreds of English centers and classes scattered all over big cities, some with dubious teachers and quality :shame:
 
I'm afraid that without any practicing environment or guidance and with the hindrance from my own reserved nature, getting left in the dust is merely a matter of time. It's possible for me to read books of knowledge highly specific to my own major without much trouble but I keep fumbling whenever I try to speak out my mind and it takes quite a lot of time to come up with a decent piece of writing.
I don't see any issues with your English, but I do see your issues related to self-confidence and attitude towards life which doesn't sound so positive. First, you should stop thinking that only a high IELTS score can secure you a good job. Second, don't get caught up in deceitful online remarks saying people with a band score of 8 are as common as dirt and stressing yourself out about it.

It's good to look ahead, observe what's happening around you, and understand the current developments. Having a plan for that is great. But, sometimes you don't have to look that far ahead or outside, especially when overly hyped successful stories make you feel belittled and insecure. Look within you, focus on yourself. Handle that first. When you feel good about yourself, the outside world won't have as much of an impact on you.

What you can do immediately is put your energy into your present concerns: How to improve your speaking skills and get a higher IELTS score. I'm sure they're enough to keep you busy. Practice everyday. Set a timeframe, maybe every two, three months, or six months. After that, see what progress you've made and what more you need to do.

Remember, be specific about your purpose of improving your speaking skills because giving presentations is different from daily conversations. When you're just chatting, you're usually talking about stuff that is familiar to you. But when you're presenting, it's more complex. You got to organize ideas, develop them and back them with proof. So, yeah, it does need some preparation. This holds true to your native language as well. Even in your own language, presenting without preparation can lead to a messy, unclear speech. So, whether you need to prepare or not and how much time you need to prepare depends on various speaking situations.

One more thing, if you're really looking to boost your speaking skill in daily conversations, watch movies. If you're into American English, go for American movies. I personally enjoy Lifetime movies.

Watching movies is a great way to pick up phrasal verbs, idioms, and how language is used in daily life. It also gives you insight into their culture and daily routines. Plus, in movies, they talk pretty fast, kind of like how they do in real life. People speak, whisper, argue, and yell in different tones, volumes, and accents amid background noises, reflecting the true nature of everyday conversations. It's not like when you watch educational or informational videos where enunciation is very clear. By the way, when watching movies, pay attention to how Americans move their mouths when they speak. This can significantly help you understand how to shape your mouth correctly to speak more naturally.
 
Majoring in pharmacy is a good choice. Your medical profession plus your strong English skills will land you a good job easily.

Unless the courses are taught in English, it is pretty normal for students to have to deliberately increase their exposure to this language if they wish to enhance their competitiveness in the job market. Being upset or disappointed about the lack of chances to practice English in college doesn't help change the situation. Instead, keep focusing on your current efforts; I believe you are doing great. To improve your IELTS scores in writing and speaking, just follow the format and practice more. What is preventing you from doing that? If it's because of missing an English interaction environment, create one.

Group people with similar goals and practice together, or join a similar team, online or in-person, locally or globally. It's also totally fine to practice alone, for communication purposes, by talking to yourself, recording your voice, answering questions in English. Read, write, and listen more in English. Immerse yourself in English as much as possible, live and breathe it. I know none of what I mentioned here is new, you have probably heard this thousands of times, but how seriously have you taken it? Practice is the only way to nail English in a non-native English speaking country. But don't forget to review and reflect; it's key for spotting where you can improve and avoiding past mistakes.

There's no shortcut to mastering any subject unless you are a natural-born talent. Of course, pro instructions and courses can speed things up, but you can get there eventually with your strong English foundation. All you need is determination and resilience but don't burn the candle at both ends. Slow down and relax. Your body and soul will greatly appreciate that. Time's on your side, and you're loaded with potential!
Well, after some reflections, I've decided to slowly build up my foundation from scratch again on my own by self studying grammar for some time already and try to practice as much as I can (which is why I'm actually here typing replies instead of mindlessly surfing the Internet per usual). And you are right about time and effort: I'm still youthful so I've got all the time in the world, why rush it ? Nothing short of a 'one-in-a-million' genius could make a name for himself at my age. As for surrounding myself with like-minded people, this is probably out of the question for the time being because I've always suffered from crippling social anxiety from an early age and only come to slowly dealt with it very slowly and it's unlikely that I will get rid of it anytime soon but while I'm no prodigy, my skills are still above average so I'll probably do just fine by myself. I reckon that I'm just thinking too much and all I really need is giving myself time to mature.
 
I don't see any issues with your English, but I do see your issues related to self-confidence and attitude towards life which doesn't sound so positive. First, you should stop thinking that only a high IELTS score can secure you a good job. Second, don't get caught up in deceitful online remarks saying people with a band score of 8 are as common as dirt and stressing yourself out about it.

It's good to look ahead, observe what's happening around you, and understand the current developments. Having a plan for that is great. But, sometimes you don't have to look that far ahead or outside, especially when overly hyped successful stories make you feel belittled and insecure. Look within you, focus on yourself. Handle that first. When you feel good about yourself, the outside world won't have as much of an impact on you.

What you can do immediately is put your energy into your present concerns: How to improve your speaking skills and get a higher IELTS score. I'm sure they're enough to keep you busy. Practice everyday. Set a timeframe, maybe every two, three months, or six months. After that, see what progress you've made and what more you need to do.

Remember, be specific about your purpose of improving your speaking skills because giving presentations is different from daily conversations. When you're just chatting, you're usually talking about stuff that is familiar to you. But when you're presenting, it's more complex. You got to organize ideas, develop them and back them with proof. So, yeah, it does need some preparation. This holds true to your native language as well. Even in your own language, presenting without preparation can lead to a messy, unclear speech. So, whether you need to prepare or not and how much time you need to prepare depends on various speaking situations.

One more thing, if you're really looking to boost your speaking skill in daily conversations, watch movies. If you're into American English, go for American movies. I personally enjoy Lifetime movies.

Watching movies is a great way to pick up phrasal verbs, idioms, and how language is used in daily life. It also gives you insight into their culture and daily routines. Plus, in movies, they talk pretty fast, kind of like how they do in real life. People speak, whisper, argue, and yell in different tones, volumes, and accents amid background noises, reflecting the true nature of everyday conversations. It's not like when you watch educational or informational videos where enunciation is very clear. By the way, when watching movies, pay attention to how Americans move their mouths when they speak. This can significantly help you understand how to shape your mouth correctly to speak more naturally.
Wow, I'm absolutely blown away by your passionate replies. Your points about self-esteem and having a clear goal in mind really hit me close to home. Perhaps I would seek consultancy from a professional who is more knowledgeable and savvy about the current happenings and so should be able to provide me with impartial judgements on which I can base my next courses of actions. Years of stressful study and the impact of COVID-19 (and also from watching members of a certain forum flaunting their 'assets' and bemoaning the sorry state of the country) has certainly soured my outlook on life in a rather unhealthy fashion.
It's not like an opportunity like this can present itself everyday so I guess I'll tell everyone a story to let out my bottled up feeling, which doubles as a chance to practice my English. A story about why I'm so overly worried about such a trivial issue. It probably stemmed from my upbringing. I was actually a year younger than my peers but for some reasons my parents decided that it's better for me to go to elementary school early. In truth, I felt inferior to them in every aspect whether it be sport or study. I couldn't blend in no matter how hard I tried and as a result always lagged behind. I remember being scolded pretty harshly by my parents for my perceived 'laziness' and 'poor' results (actually my results were not poor by any standards but rather average, it was that my parents held me to a pretty unrealistic expectation and kept trying to send me to all sorts of supplementary classes reserved for 'gifted' ones hoping I would learn something yet refused to change their way when it was evident that their action yielded no results whatsoever). The only subject that I could reliably stay at the top and gave me any sense of security was, as you could have already guessed, English. So I clinged really hard to this notion of being the best because otherwise the inferiority complex was unbearable. And before anyone ask me why I was all work, no play and so obsessed with study results instead of fooling around with my friends and making fond childhood memories, I did in fact have quite a lot of interests and still do. They were, however, so highly specific that it was difficult for me to bond with my classmates over common hobbies. (Not too mention I'm painfully shy and somewhat eccentric).

This obsession with being better than everyone lasted until I started attending university where all my preconceived notions were broken apart and whatever little sense of security I had left at that time was completely eroded thanks to the fact that the workload is obscenely heavy (yep, the school I'm talking about is indeed Hanoi University of Pharmacy, which was famous for its hellish training) and involved a lot of experimentation with which I had no prior experience whatsoever. For the first two and a hald year, I was in a state of near constant panic and was isolated from my teammates (the class was divided into multiple teams to make scheduling more manageable because the university, while pretty old and often praised for its 'antique' beauty and prestige which I failed to appreciate, is not very big and so the facilities are rather limited, forcing the staff to be creative with how they arrange classes) owing to my incompetence and perceived lack of efforts (to be fair, natural sciences have never been my forte to begin with and everyone, even my parents, agreed that I chose my major poorly). I barely managed to pass all of the subjects. During this time, my dad was reassigned to a different managerial position with even more work and less payment against his will and my rather difficult teenage brother started acting rebelliously. Needless to say, these took a heavy toll on my sanity. I experienced bouts of depression and sleeplessness every now and then. My head was nearly always filled with embitterment, resentment and spite towards everyone: my parents, my brother and myself. I was always under the impression that my teammates greatly detested me for being a liablity and only put up with me because rules compelled them to.

It was not until the recent one and a half year did my life see any improvement: COVID-19 ceased and after 5 semesters of undeniably lacklustre performance yet no failed subjects, I resigned myself to fate and tried to study to the best of my ability. This was where my English skills came in handy: I missed a lot of basic knowledge due to negligence and depression but gradually came to recover them (though understandably not completely) by reading a lot of English reference books suggested by the teachers. Also my dad was elevated to a much higher and better position because the higher-ups acknowledged his contribution and competence and straight up appointed him the post (mind you, we didn't have to resort to bribery in stark contrast to the previous time when we actually spent a lot for a position he was rightfully ordered to take). Even better, my brother finally came to his senses and stopped worrying us with his reckless and defying acts.
So all's well that ends well, right ? My parents and I are slowly reaching a mutual understanding and we may have our disagreement from time to time, I no longer feel any resentment towards them and get to comprehend their struggles with supplying us with necessities and guidance while my parents have become considerably more lax and doting throughout the years. Then why am I still so anxious ? Is it because my inferiority complex acting up again now that everything's fine ? Maybe, but I've kept it in check for quite some time. The harsh period we endured together has left me pondering about my future prospect. My parents are not young anymore and there have been signs of their failing health whereas I will eventually be obliged to step up as the one to take care of my own family. Truth to be told, I'm scared because I have so many shortcomings and both of my career options (becoming either a pharmacist or an English teacher) are becoming more and more saturated. But you are right, it's better for things to happen at their natural paces. Castles aren't built in a day. Mastery can only come from efforts and practice when natural talent can only get you so far. I've been too preoccupied these days with work so I think I'd better get some rest the next few days to relieve my mind of all these worries and intrusive thoughts.

Sorry for being so long-winded. I can't recall the last time I wrote such a lengthy prose, guess I'm really out of practice. Once again thanks for your reassuring message and helpful advice. You have my sincere gratitude and enjoy your weekend.
 
I think this's going to be more of a chance, yeah? Demand's going up so there's less barrier to entry, people are more willing to accept more, newer options, as long as their needs are met. Just gotta find that niche for yourself and go from there.
Plus, if English teaching depends entirely on say, being amongst the few IELTS 9.0 achievers, there wouldn't be hundreds of English centers and classes scattered all over big cities, some with dubious teachers and quality:shame:
Maybe I should just fake the certificate and scam people, that's much easier. Joking aside, you are right: it doesn't take a 9.0 achiever to teach basic English. I might as well just be an ordinary teacher and it would be just fine. But hey, having an impressive score will improve my chance of getting a girlfriend, so ... :shame:
 
Sửa lần cuối:
naaaaah, the basic structure of English "Subject + Verb + Object + Location (Means) " is much easier than Japanese basic "Subject + Location (Means) + Object + Verb"
1BW9Wj4.png

That is merely a fundamental grammatical structure; I can express the same idea in any other language such as German, Spanish, French, or Italian...

However, it appears that you and I are not in sync, so perhaps we should conclude this topic here.
 

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